- Write some lines from the play Act II or III and reflect on the meaning of those lines in terms of the rest of the play or in terms of existentialism.
- Also, comment on the movie. Describe a scene in which the movie version clarifies the text more than you might have thought it could.
Monday, March 8, 2010
March 8-14 R&G are Dead II
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Breanna Taylor
ReplyDelete"As socrates so philisophically put it, since we don't know what death is, it is illogical to fear it." -Guil 110
Wise words get passed down through generations, as many of Shakespeares plays have been. I thought this quote was a good representation of the ongoing theme of wisdom being spoken in a deep context, and it seems to be a thoguht relating to existentialism, as it is promoting the theme of looking at things from different angles to come to different, contradictory resolutions and answers.
I got the movie from the library and it clarified things really well, I had thought that Ros and Guil were killed in the play when in reality they were acting, acting like they were acting in the movie.
Lexy Kaftan
ReplyDelete"well he is a man, he is mortal, death comes to us all etcetera, and consequently he would have died anyway, sooner or later" p.110
Existenitialists believe that we are all going to die and that is the end, nothing happens after death, that it is inevitable and even though he didnt die that opportunity he would have died eventually so it wouldnt have mattered if he would have died that time.
I also thought Rosencrantz and Guildentstern actually died but then i realized they were just acting with the players to sort of save their own lives.
"No boundaries have been defined, no inhibitions imposed. We have, for the while, secured, or blundered into, our release, for the while." Guil pg.116
ReplyDeleteThis kind of goes with existentialism because they've decided that they create their own destiny and no one can alter that but themselves. That's were the 'for awhile' comes in because you're always going to change your destiny by making different choices no matter if they're right or wrong at the moment.
I haven't seen the movie... I was absent the day we say it... So... I don't know.
Will Quattlebaum
ReplyDeleteGuildenstern: Our names shouted in a certain dawn...a message...a summons...There must of been a moment, at the beginning, where we could of said-no. But, somehow we missed it.
This quote supports what existentialists are all about. This is at the very end of the play after the Player plays dead. This is when they are pretty close to England and they know their fate. The quote at the end seems to be extremely close to existentialism. About how we all have choices to make in our lives.
About the movie, I thought the first time they met the Players was pretty funny. I liked how each time the lead Player had said a play, the other Payers were acting it out. I thought that was pretty funny.
Laura Ahlrep
ReplyDeletePlayer: "In our experience, most things end in death." (123)
Guil: "But no one gets up after death- there is no applause- there is only silence and some second-hand clothes, and that's- death." (123)
I found these lines to be interesting in fitting all in with the play and Hamlet by the idea of death and what happens after we die. Hamlet questioned what would be worse living or dying and not knowing what kind of issues with have to deal with after death which scared him. Also it helped with the idea of fate, saying we all have an end and there is no way to escape the fact we will die even if you believe in fate or believe in existentialism.
In the movie I liked the scene where R & G were sitting in the forrest discussing the coin flipping while cooking food. I thought it was funny when Gildenstern pulled out a modern burger which made the scene more entertaining than I thought it was in the book.
Kiera Wesley
ReplyDelete"Ros: I wouldn't think about it, if I were you. You'd only get depressed. Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end.... We count for nothing. We could remain silent till we're green in the face, they wouldn't come."
I chose this quote because I felt like it really represented a core belief of existentialism. The quote speaks of how after one dies, there is nothingness. And that in one sense or another life is worthless because of this. And to think of the idea of living on forever is horrid.
As to the movie, I found the question game to be really interesting. I was not that confused while reading it but I was curious to see how they would act it out. I thought it was interesting that Guildenstern used the doors to switch areas on the court. I also found it entertaining that they used a court to play a verbal game.
Crystal Nybo
ReplyDeleteGuild- "One is free on a boat. For a time. Relatively" pg. 101
I thought this was a good quote and could be used for the rest of the play. Many times in the book situations happened that went against reason and things couldn't be explained. They were free and their life was not set in stone they decided what was going to happen and this goes along with the theme existentialism. In the movie I liked when Guildenstern was playing with the pots and the first time the movement of the first pot moved the opposite pot. But, then a second later when he was trying to make sense of the situation the pot broke. This just better showed me the idea of existentialism and how things don't have a meaning and cant be explained. Existentialism don't believe in Newtons third law and others like it.
Jenn Hergert
ReplyDelete"I extract significance from melodrama, a significance which it does not in fact contain..."
Player, page 83
I chose this quote because I thought it related well to the theme of existentialism in the play. The player is saying that people try to get meaning out of things in life, when really there is none there at all. It fits well into existentialism, because existentialists say that nothing has a meaning, there is no right or wrong, you must make your own choices; much like the player says there is no meaning in his melodrama.
I think the movie did well in clearing up all the random babble that goes on between Rosencrantz and Guildenstern throughout the play. On paper, many of their conversations just looked like meaningless sentence fragments, but in the movie it's easier to understand what's going on.
Sarah Hale:)
ReplyDelete"All this strolling about is getting too arbitrary by half-I'm rapidly losing my grip. From now on reason will prevail." pg 69 Rosencrants
Reading this quote definitely brought the whole concept of existentialism directly to mind. When discussing the proposed causes of Hamlet's craziness, Rosencrants can't take in all of what he's being told in the previous lines by the player and by what Hamlet's confessed to him with regards to being "depressed." So Rosencrants decides that he will only make judgements based on reason, which touches on the thought of decisions being the very things that shape our being, a person creates their identity by the decisions they make. So here, I believe Rosencrants is saying that he will only take note of the decisions Hamlet has made to decide what his problem is. Rosencrants is no accepting the illusion of fate, another example of existentialism. Complete randomness, a life without coherence, is what Hamlet is portraying to Rosencrants.
A scene from the movie which cleared things up with regards to the play being read from the book was the scene described on page 57, Rosencrants and Guildenstern discussing their unsuccessful questioning of Hamlet. The movie shows them actively arguing of how much of a waste of time it was basically secretively interviewing Hamlet, trying to find the source of his insanity. Their sarcastic tones, and conclusion of Hamlet's "depression" allowed me to interpret the frustration that went along with the lines, "Six rhetorical and two repetition, leaving nineteen, of which we answered fifteen!" (Rosencrantz) Loved this scene...but the broken pot scenario in their strange, without probability universe was the part that really took the cake.
Derek Decker
ReplyDelete"We're actors...We pledged our identities, secure in the conventions of our trade, that someone would be watching." - Player, pg. 64
In this passage, the lead player explains that as actors, they assume a certain role and play a certain part for an audience. In a way, this is essentially life as how an existentialist would see it. Everybody is just an actor that steps into a certain role and plays a part. Many assume that someone is watching (i.e. God). Of course, we could walk off the stage at any time we'd like, but that's not the way we ought to live.
I thought the movie was pretty good overall. I didn't feel that it clarified anything in the book that hadn't already been clarified, but I liked that it added certain elements. My favorite scene was when either Rosencrantz or Guildenstern pulled out a hamburger. It was a humorous gag because burgers obviously didn't exist in the Middle Ages. On the other hand, it also fitted well into the theme of the play because according to existentialists, forms of natural order such as time are merely creations of man; who knows if such a thing even really exists?
Kirsten Zoba
ReplyDeleteGuildenstern: "...it's like being given a prize, an extra slice of childhood when you least expect it, as a prize for being good, or compensation for never having had had one..." (40)
I picked this quote because I thought it related to existentialism well. It refered back to the idea that you are not born with a destiny, and every choice you make within your life helps guide your way to what will eventually happen to you. Guildenstern refernces being well behaved in order to be rewarded later.
I would say Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead is a very simple script, especially compared to Hamlet. I understood it very well, and there wasn't a specific scene that I thought needed clarification, but rather the way they speak to eachother. While reading in class, it's hard to tell what the character is trying to portray with three word lines and the movie really helped clear up the unending banter for me.
Dan McMillan
ReplyDeleteGuildenstern p.95
" I don't know. It's the same sky"
I like this quote alot because it portrays hope and the act of never giving up even though doubt and failure is a possibility. This quote fits with the story quite well because I believe that this one little line explains Rosencrantz and Guildensterns journey quite well. Together they have gone so far and I feel like since they have one so far why should they begin to have doubt now and choose not to be free.
When it comes to the movie I would say it's definatly more entertaining that Hamlet was. That being said, I don't really understand the acting between rosencrantz and guildenstern. To me I feel as if they are senseless individuals that feel as though there luck will help them get by in life. Also, it seems to me that there roles arn't as serious as they are in the book of Hamlet.
Christine Nafziger
ReplyDelete“No, no, no … Death is … not. Death isn’t. You take my meaning. Death is the ultimate negative. Not being.” (pg. 108)
Guildenstern is explaining to Rosencrantz why he should not throw himself off of the boat. If existentialists believe that you create your own destiny and life and that death will come eventually, then Guildenstern should not be saying the death is the ultimate negative. They know that they will eventually die and that there is no way to stop from dying.
The movie was helpful in clearing up random scenes because there is so much banter that seeing actors say the lines helps a lot. One scene that I liked was the ending with the pirates. Hamlet does not show this part of the story and seeing it in Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead was helpful. Also, since there was so much action that reading it was difficult to understand everything that was happening.
Jaina Shah
ReplyDelete“Naturally, you’d prefer to be alive. Life in a box is better than no life at all. I expect. You’d have a chance at least. You could lie there thinking- well, at least I’m not dead! In a minute someone’s going to bang on the lid and tell me to come out.” Page 71
The meaning of existentialism is everyone is responsible for the results of their own actions. From this quote I got if you think living your life in box is better, than it’s your destiny. People basically make there on path of life and they live the way they want to. That shows existentialism.
When we were reading the book Rosencrantz a
nd Guildenstern I did not get the end of the book. Like how they died. I don’t know in the book if I missed the part but I thought they died different way. I didn’t expect to get hung.
Savannah Guillen
ReplyDelete“It really boils down to symptoms. Pregnant replies, mystic allusions, mistaken identities, arguing his father is his mother, that sort of thing; intimations of suicide, forgoing of exercise, loss of mirth, hints of claustrophobia not to say delusions of imprisonment; invocations of camels, chameleons, capons, whales, weasels, hawks, handsaws—riddles, quibbles and evasions; amnesia, paranoia, myopia; day-dreaming, hallucinations; stabbing his elders, abusing his parents, insulting his lover, and appearing hatless in public—knock-kneed, droop-stockinged and sighing like a love-sick schoolboy, which at his age is coming on a bit strong” (116-117).
I really like this quote from Guildenstern because it pretty much sums up the entire play of Hamlet, but it also shows that Rosencrantz and Guildenstern can be observant and funny at the same time. It seemed as if Rosencrantz and Guildenstern were almost like children because they were so curious about cause and effect and the movement of certain things.
Overall, the movie was so-so; funny in some parts and boring in others. A scene that clarified the book for me was when Rosencrantz was lying on top of a stone grave and reflecting that life in a box is better than no life at all.
Nik Toor
ReplyDeleteGuil: "What was that?
Ros: I can't remember
Guil: What a shambles! We're just not getting anywhere.
Ros: Not even England. I don't believe in it anyway." (107)
This is when Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are talking on the boat while on their way to England where they assumed Hamlet would be put to death. I think these lines from the play are a good example of existentialism. Both Ros and Guil think they're basically useless at this point and not going anywhere or getting further, but they keep going on, with basically no driving force, except they think that’s what they're supposed to do.
For me the movie really cleared up the part when they are on the boat. While reading the play I didn’t really understand that part until I saw it in the movie.
Brody Hovatter
ReplyDelete"We’ve travelled too far, and our momentum has taken over; we move idly towards eternity, without possibility of reprieve or hope of explanation."
This is what Guildenstern says to Rosencrantz after they have discovered that Hamlet has escaped from the boat and their mission is now pointless. At this point, Guildenstern seems to have lost hope, and wonders what he and Rosencrantz's purporse are. This reflects the idea of existentialism that we have no idea what the meaning of life is or what our purpose is, and that we must simply live our lives anyway without ever knowing.
A scene from the movie that helped clarify what was going on was the end of the scene on the boat, after Hamlet has escaped and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern have read the letter that would kill them. I thought the actors (Rosencrantz and Guildenstern) did a great job of getting the point across that life can seem meaningless, and that we don't know the point of our existence.
Leslee Fall
ReplyDelete"Ros: We must be born with an intuition of mortality. Before we know the words for it, before we know that there are words, out we come, bloodied and squalling with the knowledge that for all the compasses in the world, there's only one direction, and time is its only measure." pg. 72
This quote tells a great deal about existentialism. It describes how we are born without anything except the ability to live and succeed in living. We are not born with anything else, no destiny, no certain path to go on except the path of living. It also describes how time means nothing, that it just tells us where we are in life but to the world it does not matter.
There was a scene in the movie when Ros and Guild were at the very end of their story and were on the boat talking about death and when in life they could have said no to the direction that lead them to death. I didn't understand it in the book but when i saw it in the movie i understood that Ros was accepting death and that Guild was confused and wondering when he could have changed his life to avoid his death.
Gina Chenoweth
ReplyDelete“I don’t pretend to have understood. Frankly, I’m not very interested. If they won’t tell us that’s their affair. For my part, I’m only glad that that’s the last we’ve seen of him.” (92)
This quote, I think, develops on the idea of keeping to oneself and letting the rest of the world do as it wants. It portrays the idea that everyone can be happy if they stay in their own little bubble and let everything pass them by. It may not be a correct notion, but it is one that is in the same league as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
I thought the movie was an interesting follow up to Hamlet. It made some of the scenes more interesting by adding an extra element to them, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it “clarified” anything. Just because some random author decided that Rosencrantz and Guildenstern were accessories in Polonius’s death, doesn’t make it a clarification.
Katie Martens
ReplyDeletePeriod 3
“Be happy—if you’re not even happy what’s so good about surviving? We’ll be all right. I suppose we just go on.” Rosencrantz p 121
Rosencrantz states these lines right after Guildenstern makes a remark about how life has no meaning. I think what Rosencrantz is trying to say here is that maybe the purpose of life is to just be happy because without that, there is no reason to live. This shows that the author is trying to display two different opinions regarding the purpose of life. One, showing that there is no purpose and the other showing that life is about personal fulfillment and staying happy.
While reading the book, I was confused about how the characters were actually acting out a play in a play. The end of the movie where Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are on the boat, just about the be hanged is what clarified that they were acting. Although the movie did help me understand the book, the entire concept of the story still confuses me a little bit because it is so complicated.
Tori Weisel
ReplyDelete“Naturally – we didn’t get paid, owing to circumstances ever so slightly beyond our control, and all the money we had we lost betting on certainties. Life is a gamble, at terrible odds – if it was a bet you wouldn’t take it” (pg 115).
This quote is when the Player was talking to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern on the boat. The player is telling them that he had to unexpectedly leave after they upset King Claudius with their play. He is also saying that you wouldn’t bet on life because it can be too unpredictable and a lot of times it doesn’t always work out the way you want it to.
I thought that the way they did the ending in the movie was really good. When I read the book I was a little confused on how they just disappeared, so you weren’t sure if they were dead or not. With the movie I thought it was a cool ending to it and it really made you wonder about what really happened to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
Anna Billmaier
ReplyDelete"Wheels have been set in motion, and they have their own pace, to which we are...condemned. Each move is dictated by the previous one---that is the meaning of order."
This quote directly relates to the idea of existentialism and how each choice and decision we make defines who we are. According to the beliefs of existentialism, each decision we make affects our future in two ways: one, we are responsible for consequences of the choices we make and two, making each choice excludes all choices that could have been made.
The scene where Rosencrantz and Guildenstern were playing a game with their words on the empty court in the castle clarified the text for me. I was confused when reading this part and I thought it was a good choice by the director to place them on a court during this scene in order to portray the idea that it was a competition between the two.
April Dick
ReplyDelete"Where we went wrong was getting on a boat. We can move, of course, change direction, rattle about, but our movement is contained within a larger one that carries us along as inexorably as the wind and current..." -Guildenstern (page 122)
One of the fundamental beliefs of existentialism is that each person must be responsible for the consequences of their actions. By saying that they went wrong by getting on a boat, Guildentstern is accepting the fact that they could have avoided their deaths if they had made a different choice at some point. He then goes on to say that their fate is ultimately unchangeable because of the choice they made.
Though you could tell from the book that Rosencrantz and Guildentstern spent a lot of time babbling about useless things, the movie made it much more obvious that their conversations were mostly full of ridiculous comments. It was easier to extract the absurdity of their existence in the movie.
Erik Enselman
ReplyDelete"It could go on for ever. Well, not for ever, I suppose. Do you ever think of yourself as actually dead, lying in a box with a lid on it?
Rosencrantz, pg 70
This quote really relates to the meaning of existentialism. This is the part of the play where rozencrantz is really ranting about life and death. A few lines later, Rosencrantz says that eternity is a terrible thought, which relates to existentialism and that there is no life after death. This quote very much relates to the no life after death. He says that it cant go on for ever, and since there is no life after death, that he would rather live in a box then be dead.
I thought the movie was very good and made alot more sense then just reading the book. I felt like the scene at the end clarified the story when the player acts like he is dead but actually is alive. It just really cleard up the whole existenialism theme to the book.
Samielle Foltz
ReplyDeletePlayer: “We're actors... We pledged our identities, secure in the conventions of our trade, that someone would be watching.”
The players became as they are by choice. They “pledged” their identities and created their own purpose. They weren't predestined to be particular people but as existentialism says we became as we are based on the choices we make, cause and effect. But this book is kind of faulty in a way. It can be argued that Tom Stoppard was writing about existentialism and the characters are portraying this belief/idea. If so, then the characters aren't existential because they were created for a purpose, the writer being their creator of sorts and they do everything he says. Stoppard writes about them on a page and they can't argue back because they are the creation of his mind-
;)
Rather than focusing on a single scene I'd like to focus on the flying pieces of script that showed up throughout the movie. It was more or less a directors device to provide the impression of existentialism. Being first introduced in the very first scene of the players where they start scrambling about and this script starts falling out of its place. Soon enough the papers are flying all over the place and getting mixed up. Which is saying, if there is a script in life we can't follow it or assign a set meaning to it because even if we get all of the pages together, like when R. was lying down on a pedestal thing and then a bunch of pages drift down to him, he just looks at them curiously then tosses them aside(or he makes a paper airplane I think?). Maybe he got the first page and last page of the script. The script could have been about someones life, maybe if R. was lucky it was the first and last page. It could have been about a person and the first page being about their birth and the other page about their death. We could deduce that this persons life was merely comprised of life and death. How could that really be known? After all the script could have been any one of the pages, its not like they were numbered or if there even was a limit of pages. It could have been a series of scripts, one page was from one script and the other from another. The possibilities are numerous, then again, its existentialism. According to existentialists we cant really assign meaning to anything. And R. and G. Are Dead is essentially a piece based on existentialism. Having a movie of it and including the visuals, aka the flying scripts, clarifies the text more so than I thought it could. I like it though, its creative.
Bridget Cook
ReplyDelete"No,no,no...you've got it all wrong...you can't act death. The fact of it is nothing to do with seeing it happen - it's not gasps and blood and falling about - that is'nt what makes it death. It's just a man failing to reappear, that's all - now you see him, now you don't." (Guildenstern pg.84)
Throughout the play there is a lot of killing by people and by the actors. Guildenstern is talking to the player and arguing about the way death is portrayed in plays. He believes that death is a simple process of "gathering weight" until finally you are heavy with death. I also thought this connected to exsistentialism because he is explaining that there is no way to show or explain death, there is no meaning in it no matter how you look at it.
I thought the movie really helped to clarify the begining scene where Rosencrants and Guildenstern are riding towards Elsenor flipping the coin. By just reading the text, this scene seemed very choppy and random, but watching the movie cleared it up and it made more sense.
Mark Galambos
ReplyDelete"Whatever became of the moment when one first knew about death? There must have been one. A moment. In childhood. When it first occured to you that you don't go on forever. Must have been shattering. Stamped into one's memory. "
I think the movie did an excellent job in capturing what Stoppard was saying in his novel, the countless little images floating around the movies (namely, the pages of script) made it stand out as a very clever existentialist film. The actors did an astounding job at enacting the two witty protagonists, and really helped the movie make sense.
Brian Gleadle
ReplyDeleteRosencrantz: So, we've got a letter which explains everything.
Guildenstern: You've got it!
Rosencrantz: I thought you had it.
Guildenstern: I do have it.
Rosencrantz: You have it?
Guildenstern: You've got it!
Rosencrantz: I don't get it!
Guildenstern: You haven't got it?
Rosencrantz: I just said that.
Guildenstern: I've got it.
Rosencrantz: Oh, I got it!
Guildenstern: Shutup!
Rosencrantz: Right.
This quote is when Ros and Guild are on the boat talking about how they are going to approach the king and what the letter they got says. They are trying to figure out which one of them has the letter, and once again they are confused as to who is who and who has the letter. They are using a play on words, and the CHOICE of how to interpret a persons words which could mean something totally different then what a person is meaning to say.
As for the movie, the scene that clarified the book for me was pretty much the entire boat scene. In the book its hard to visualize them going back and forth and its difficult to determine which one of them is talking and which one has said certain things in the past. The entire boat scene puts everything in perspection and is also quite comedic, i especially enjoyed the part with the pirates boats bow busts through their cabin.
"They had it in for us, didn't they? Right from the beginning. Who'd have thought that we were so important?" -Rosencrantz, Pg.122
ReplyDeleteThis line deals with existentialism because it is the thought that we are all basically insignificant with no real reason to why we are here. Throughout the play the basics of existentialism are scattered about, including the theme that R&G's actions lead them to their end; not their destiny. It relates to the lines where they agree that somewhere in the beginning there mustve been a place where they could've said no. Through out the play R&G face the existentialist question of why they are so important.
I felt like the movie was much more clear than the book. The movie made the rambling parts of the book seem witty and comedic. I thought there was good acting as well. Most importantly though I felt that the director stayed with the existentialist theme that Stoppard wrote the book with. Overall I thought it was a very good movie.
Denisse Manrique
ReplyDeleteRos:"The position as i see it, then. We, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, from our young days brought up with him, awakened by a man standing on his saddle, are summoned, and arrive, and are instructed to glean what afflicts him and draw him on to pleasures, such as a play, which unfortunately, as it turns out, is abandoned in some confusion owing to certain nuances outside our appreciation.." p.111
This quote is important to the story because it both explains the book and existentialism. The quotes is said by Rosencrantz who is in a way describing the play an what his whole journey with Guildenstern has led them. If either of them had made a different decision at any time throughout their journey it would have led them to a different outcome. But now they are on ship and were sent to have Hamlet killed. They are finally understanding ho the chain of events have put them in this position. Therefore existentialism.
I thought that the scenes where Rosencrantz was discovering all the new laws of physics was the best part of the movie. I also enjoyed their back and fourth banter. The way the director put those comedic scenes of existentialism and how it contradicts the laws of physics. It was clever and well done. It was also easier to understand the story when watching the movie and how they interpreted everything. Watching the actors act out the dialogue was a lot easier to comprehend compared to reading it in class.
Maxx Forde
ReplyDelete"Couldn't we just stay put? I mean no one is going to come on and drag us off.... They'll just have to wait. We're still young...fit...we've got years...."
(Rosencrantz, Pg. 125)
I liked this quote because of what it gave to the book from the existential standpoint and just what it gave to the book itself. In
terms of existentialism, it shows that they still do have a choice and that could effect the rest of their lives. What it give to the book as a whole is that it gives more to the ambiguity of the ending. The open-endedness, I believe, just helps add to the effect that the book has on the reader.
A part of the movie that helped clear up things for me is at the end when the players all act out their death and Rosencrantz and
Guildenstern disappear. In the book, it all just happened so fast and was somewhat confusing to me but being able to see this in the movie just helped me rather than having to try to visualize it. It also helped with my understanding of everything in the play as a whole and kind of just the glue that put it all together for me.